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lokeanrampant:
mosellegreen:
I’m excessively stressed over the (likely) heinousity of this new movie because it’s reminding me of a lot of the nastier aspects of human nature.
I keep marveling (eheheh) that no matter how many times we point out the parallels between Loki’s treatment by Asgardians and that of, say, gay people, or that Asgard is a deeply racist/speciesist society that taught Loki to internalize racism against his own kind, people still keep blithely running around being all, “Oh, Loki’s just evil, everything was totally his fault, Odin and Thor are OMG so noble.”
My brain kept coming back to this and worrying it, and I think I finally see why. As a society, we’ve gotten to the point that very few people would approve of teaching an adopted child of another race to hate his own kind, and very few people would approve of socially ostracizing someone for being, say, gay, Jewish, the only [insert ethnicity here] in the group, disabled, etc.
But Loki doesn’t have any of that - he looks white (like most Asgardians), he’s male, he’s a prince, etc. - except that he’s secretly a frost giant. And since frost giants are imaginary a disturbing percentage of people are able to handwave the fact that Asgard is an openly racist society and that finding out he was one inevitably did Loki massive damage.
Basically, we’ve trained people enough that most will check themselves if they find themselves approving of someone being treated badly if they are a member of a known disadvantaged group, like if they’re nonwhite, gay, Jewish, whatever. But take these obvious markers away and people feel free to be dickheads.
Oddballs are not a protected group.
This exists in real life, btw. I’ve had people suddenly be nicer to me when they found out I was gay. I’m Jewish by choice, converted when I was about 35, but at the school I went to for junior high, there was a brief rumor that I was Jewish (no idea how that started, aside from that I was bookish and odd), and for the two days that my classmates believed it they were nicer to me. (That was a lily-white private school; the lower grades were more diverse - this was the 80’s, the social changes were very visible at that stage - but in the upper grades, there was one black student, one Jewish student, two India-Indians, and two Japanese. Everybody was scrupulously nice to these kids so that everyone else could see how unprejudiced they were. I guess that was progress? In a way?
I was thinking about this last night, actually. I was responding to some posts and had on, of all things, FF - Silver Surfer (shush, I actually prefer Johnny over Cappy; Cappy is just too…moral. I need more greys in my life and knowing that some rules need to be broken and some orders need to be questioned.). There is a scene in there that fits this perfectly. There is a doctor examining the Surfer and he mentions how many of the things they’d like to do would be a crime against humanity, but isn’t it just so lucky that the surfer isn’t human. That one little detail suddenly allows humanity to explore their darkest, basest, most cruel thoughts - because this person isn’t human, we are suddenly allowed the freedom to not be human ourselves. I’m not entirely sure how that works (and I’m sure the severely overly-optimistic Roddenberry would roll in his grave), but that’s how it seems to work.
Now, me, I’d like to think I would behave in a human and humane way to any sentient creature and not cause undue hardship. You’d actually think it would be easier with humanoid races and hell, the Aesir are very, very humanoid. Yet somehow, add in the fact that he’s a Frost Giant, which is a race known to be “evil,” simply because Asgard is so damned high-and-mighty and therefore, everything they say must be true (rather than, ya know, thinking for ourselves), and hey, tall, dark, and magical is TEH EVUL.
Yes, I know, the Jotun invaded Midgard way back when and plotted to turn our ancestors into ice sculptures. I am aware of this fact. And uh, how, exactly, did most of us actually wind up where we are today? By our ancestors exploring and generally subjugating or annihilating the native peoples. Not exactly a new concept in the quest for expansion and new resources. Nowadays, we mostly just destroy wildlife and habitat, but there are still places the media likes to sweep under the rug where similar events take place regularly and are ongoing, in fact.
I always appreciate the fics where Tony prompts people to actually look at the Jotun from an outside perspective and it shows them as people. They have good and bad and society and culture and they live, as a race. People love to forget that history is written by the victors and wow, does Asgard ever deify itself and crucify its victims. It wouldn’t look so good for Asgard to be the one who slays half a populace of people who were dying and just looking for a place to live, ya know. (No, I’m not saying that’s why the Jotun invaded, but it’s an example, go with it.) The worse the enemy, the more glorious the victory…so what if that enemy is only that awful in the tales spun around the battle. Cause, ya know, then they would look like a bully. Funny that.
lokeanrampant:
mosellegreen:
I’m excessively stressed over the (likely) heinousity of this new movie because it’s reminding me of a lot of the nastier aspects of human nature.
I keep marveling (eheheh) that no matter how many times we point out the parallels between Loki’s treatment by Asgardians and that of, say, gay people, or that Asgard is a deeply racist/speciesist society that taught Loki to internalize racism against his own kind, people still keep blithely running around being all, “Oh, Loki’s just evil, everything was totally his fault, Odin and Thor are OMG so noble.”
My brain kept coming back to this and worrying it, and I think I finally see why. As a society, we’ve gotten to the point that very few people would approve of teaching an adopted child of another race to hate his own kind, and very few people would approve of socially ostracizing someone for being, say, gay, Jewish, the only [insert ethnicity here] in the group, disabled, etc.
But Loki doesn’t have any of that - he looks white (like most Asgardians), he’s male, he’s a prince, etc. - except that he’s secretly a frost giant. And since frost giants are imaginary a disturbing percentage of people are able to handwave the fact that Asgard is an openly racist society and that finding out he was one inevitably did Loki massive damage.
Basically, we’ve trained people enough that most will check themselves if they find themselves approving of someone being treated badly if they are a member of a known disadvantaged group, like if they’re nonwhite, gay, Jewish, whatever. But take these obvious markers away and people feel free to be dickheads.
Oddballs are not a protected group.
This exists in real life, btw. I’ve had people suddenly be nicer to me when they found out I was gay. I’m Jewish by choice, converted when I was about 35, but at the school I went to for junior high, there was a brief rumor that I was Jewish (no idea how that started, aside from that I was bookish and odd), and for the two days that my classmates believed it they were nicer to me. (That was a lily-white private school; the lower grades were more diverse - this was the 80’s, the social changes were very visible at that stage - but in the upper grades, there was one black student, one Jewish student, two India-Indians, and two Japanese. Everybody was scrupulously nice to these kids so that everyone else could see how unprejudiced they were. I guess that was progress? In a way?
I was thinking about this last night, actually. I was responding to some posts and had on, of all things, FF - Silver Surfer (shush, I actually prefer Johnny over Cappy; Cappy is just too…moral. I need more greys in my life and knowing that some rules need to be broken and some orders need to be questioned.). There is a scene in there that fits this perfectly. There is a doctor examining the Surfer and he mentions how many of the things they’d like to do would be a crime against humanity, but isn’t it just so lucky that the surfer isn’t human. That one little detail suddenly allows humanity to explore their darkest, basest, most cruel thoughts - because this person isn’t human, we are suddenly allowed the freedom to not be human ourselves. I’m not entirely sure how that works (and I’m sure the severely overly-optimistic Roddenberry would roll in his grave), but that’s how it seems to work.
Now, me, I’d like to think I would behave in a human and humane way to any sentient creature and not cause undue hardship. You’d actually think it would be easier with humanoid races and hell, the Aesir are very, very humanoid. Yet somehow, add in the fact that he’s a Frost Giant, which is a race known to be “evil,” simply because Asgard is so damned high-and-mighty and therefore, everything they say must be true (rather than, ya know, thinking for ourselves), and hey, tall, dark, and magical is TEH EVUL.
Yes, I know, the Jotun invaded Midgard way back when and plotted to turn our ancestors into ice sculptures. I am aware of this fact. And uh, how, exactly, did most of us actually wind up where we are today? By our ancestors exploring and generally subjugating or annihilating the native peoples. Not exactly a new concept in the quest for expansion and new resources. Nowadays, we mostly just destroy wildlife and habitat, but there are still places the media likes to sweep under the rug where similar events take place regularly and are ongoing, in fact.
I always appreciate the fics where Tony prompts people to actually look at the Jotun from an outside perspective and it shows them as people. They have good and bad and society and culture and they live, as a race. People love to forget that history is written by the victors and wow, does Asgard ever deify itself and crucify its victims. It wouldn’t look so good for Asgard to be the one who slays half a populace of people who were dying and just looking for a place to live, ya know. (No, I’m not saying that’s why the Jotun invaded, but it’s an example, go with it.) The worse the enemy, the more glorious the victory…so what if that enemy is only that awful in the tales spun around the battle. Cause, ya know, then they would look like a bully. Funny that.
